Homosexuality against Christian tradition

'06 Alum

Fri Jan 1 2010 15:05

Mr. Spangler's insight was most impressive in this article; I only wanted to supplement his thoughts with further reminders from the bible.
First, Leviticus instructs us in the keeping of slaves:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way" (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT).
Furthermore, Deuteronomy reminds us that rapists ought to take care of their victims.
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her" (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT).
Thirdly, we wouldn't want to forget the rightful punishment for adulterers:
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death" (Leviticus 20:10 NLT).
Finally, perhaps we should rethink the status of our female professors at Davidson as Timothy notes that
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet" (2:11-12).
So, Mr. Spangler, in addition to removing college support for homosexuals, perhaps we should instate these other biblical suggestions - slavery, rape, death for adultery and removal of female professors.

TB '07

Mon Nov 30 2009 09:53

My heart goes out to all the anger, frustration, indignance.
What in us feels the need to so vehemently defend our positions?
Or better, it seems these intellectual confusions of 'controversy' might subside were we to recognize how desperately we all must love and be loved, respect, and be respected.
Peace to all.

Rodney King

Mon Nov 23 2009 11:02

Terrible. You should have attended Bob Jones. Hope you have had a chance to "save" some of those heathens your Bible marks as bound for hell; too bad it's likely too late to save you from a life of hatred while you wait for a mythical Heaven inclusive of only people like you. This article shows why religion has been a net negative since its inception by man near the beginning of time.

Davidson alum '09

Thu Nov 19 2009 00:49

I would have never phrased my beliefs on homosexuality and Scripture in the same way that Michael did and I don't even hold the same interpretation.
However, and this is the big however, the ridiculous personal attacks and cruel words cement the fears I had as a student to express any view contrary to the "PC, if you love people you must be a liberal, if you have a literal interpretation of scripture you are a hateful bigot, etc." perspective held by many at Davidson.
Seriously? Tolerance? Kettle...your phone is ringing, Pot's on the line.

But Michael, seriously. Gentleness and respect go a long way. Even if other people refuse to give it to you.

Your name

Sun Nov 15 2009 15:49

homosexuality is not just with humans, there are examples of homosexuality all through out the animal kingdom.... are they sinners too? the words of the bible have many different translations, so how can you be so sure yours are the right ones?

Chambersghost

Sat Nov 14 2009 02:17

I graduated from DC some years ago, before more than, oh, two students identified as gay. There were, of course, lots of gay students but, yup, all of them were in the closet. The school was not tolerant at all of gays. Thinking back, I realize that nearly all of the students I knew that dropped out, left because they were gay. (There were, yes, quite a few closeted gay profs and staff. Some of them were among the most intolerant voices around which didn't help anyone. The only out faculty member I knew of eventually moved away from DC, years of intolerance being the reason.)

All of the gay DC students I knew paid a high price for being in the closet throughout college. One of my closeted roommates attempted suicide several times. The rest, maybe ten friends in all, went through very difficult periods in the process of coming out. DC made their lives much harder than necessary and their experiences left me with a rather sour opinion of DC. Apparently, DC is a more tolerant place now. However, reading through various discussions about being queer at DC made me sad that there is still so much intolerance. I understand that somehow intolerance is part and parcel of religious fundamentalism--no surprise there--but it's telling that more faculty and staff haven't stood up against this kind of intolerance.

Here's a suggestion: Gay groups should talk to James G. Pepper, DC class of '65, a patron of the art department, and a Prince of the Wall St. gay mafia. (Well, he was called such by the NY Observer a few years ago and I think he's rather proud of it. He was a major supporter of various efforts to uproot Jessie Helms. He's on the board of the Stonewall Fund and a co-founder of Gay Men's Health Crisis. In short, he's one of the most famous Davidson graduates that you've never heard of.) Mr. Pepper likes to fund gay political campaigns. If a group of students approached Mr. Pepper with a sense of panache, I can see him making sure that gay student groups and their activities are well funded and given proper notice. And, hey, why not start a drive to honor Mr. Pepper as Davidson's most famous gay graduate?

Phil Hazel, '64 and following

Wed Nov 11 2009 05:09

It is no surprise that Davidson is divided. Back and forth like this doesn't really illuminate. The illumination comes from watching how we actually live. If Davidson, as an institution, does not discriminate in its official policy, that is enough.

Its alumni, students, faculty and staff on both sides of this issue ("both" is a ridiculous limitation, of course) will live in a way that minimizes the actuality of discrimination and the effect of discrimination without preaching, loudly, at each other. I've watched this happen in so many ways during the nearly seven decades of my life. Humans won't fail me now - at least, not here.

May the discussion go on, but no spitting, please.

Your name

Wed Nov 11 2009 03:46

Hmmmmmm....so going along with the last line of that petition, I would safely conclude that you folks are intolerant of "intolerance"??? Can we think about that for a second...??

Scott Denham

Wed Nov 11 2009 00:01

Members of the community signed a statement that will appear as an advertisement in the next issue of the Davidsonian; the newsprint edition will carry this statement, but it's not clear that the online version will. Here is that statement and the signatories (signatory list may be updated).
www.davidson.edu/academic/german/denham/communitystatement.pdf

jackoff

Tue Nov 10 2009 22:42

I am that jackoff...

tired of the talk

Tue Nov 10 2009 21:39

"You're intolerant!" "You hate gays!!" That's all I'm hearing from this ridiculously drawn-out discussion, and, after pissing away 15 minutes and skimming every single comment on this page, I'm a little exhausted. Whatever you're beliefs are about homosexuality, let us not forget that two opinion pieces were written and placed in the Davidsonian (and no, it wasn't to boost readership like some jackoff said it was--in fact I'm sure that a lot of thought was put into the decision to publish an article such as this one), pieces that reflect BOTH SIDES of the current debate in our nation. As a pair of "Perspectives" pieces, the articles should be respected as exactly that--someone's opinions regarding a present-day controversy. I lost count of how many "tolerant" people there were that were ALL TOO QUICK to pull out the old "Let-him-cast-the-first-stone" line. Seems to me that, for as "tolerant" a campus as we are trying to be, some of us in this forum (most, rather) aren't being too tolerant of another's views. Isn't this exactly what you all are accusing Michael of in writing this article? And for the last time, Michael NEVER stated that he hates gay people. I myself am a Christian, and I have plenty of gay friends. I don't discriminate or shy away from them, nor do I think it is right to do so because that is not the Christian attitude. However, I believe that homosexuality is a sin. Does that make me a bad person? A homophobe? Is your view not just the exact opposite--that you don't believe homosexuality is a sin? It's funny how the mob mentality of "tolerance" that pervades this forum has done a complete 180 and has become the most intolerant opinion of this discussion.

Your name

Tue Nov 10 2009 16:42

Yes, he is expressing his opinion, but is also making a recommendation to the Davidson community to back away from embracing parts of people some consider just as innate as race or gender. As I see it some accept the recommendation and some don't. Plus I don't think that the majority of responders are being intolerant rather than expressing their opinions that are vehemently against this article.

Your name

Tue Nov 10 2009 15:30

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire
I believe it is unfair, hypocritical, and downright mean for people of this community to continue to berate and threaten Michael for expressing his honest opinion. I wonder if half of the people who commented bothered to read the companion piece run alongside and in fact written in coordination with Michael's piece? It may be seen by some (who clearly don't know how to post their comment only once) as an embarrassment to the school and the student body that this piece was run by one of the Davidson publications. Many others, though, would have seen it as even more humiliating for our school to be held as an institution that censors and represses the voice and views of anyone in it's community, regardless of how many people disagree. I believe that it took courage for Michael to express his views, and I feel truly sorry for him that he has received such a violent and personally threatening reaction from so many of the members of this community who claim to be "accepting."

Intolerant of idiots

Tue Nov 10 2009 15:23

You PC people are aggravating. The bible is not separate from ethics or tolerance, rather, it is the essence of both. It not only lays down the higher moral law, straight from the infinite Creator himself, to us mortals. Yes, we are called to love all people equally, but we are also called to hate sin. As far as I can see, the liberals definition of tolerance is intolerant towards people who disagree with them, and hating on anyone because of a wrong decision is wrong, we've all sinned, equally in God's eyes, just in different ways (Remove the plank from your own eye first). So both you gay-bashers and you LGBQTI people are wrong. It's possible to love gay people while openly disagreeing with their sexuality, just like it's possible to love a recovering drug addict or a drunkard; it doesn't make their decision right. Read the bible, dammit.

Disappointed

Tue Nov 10 2009 08:17

I know this was a great discussion-provoker, but that's about all this article accomplished in my opinion. Will Davidson really take heed of this advice and quit celebrating National Coming Out Day? Will the GLBT community allow themselves to be suppressed because of what I hope is a minority opinion? Of course I respect that Mr. Spangler has every right to express his interpretation of the bible, but I don't think Davidson is going to stop promoting tolerance and respect for who people really are. If anything Mr. Spangler has just alienated himself from a portion of the Davidson communitty, but I suppose you run the risk of that with whatever opinion you express in the Davidsonian.

Your name

Mon Nov 9 2009 23:59

Irregardless of your opinion on the issue, it is quite “closed minded” (as many of you have suggested) to openly condemn this guy for expressing his opinion. If we are going to be all gung ho diversity and open minded then we also have to accept the right of everyone to make their opinions known. It is indeed a closed minded individual who is quick to label others as such because their opinions do not agree with their own self-proclaimed “open mindedness”. Not only is this sort of behavior hypocritical, but it is frighteningly pejorative. The author made no threats, nor did he call names or directly inhibit anyone else’s well being. He merely stated his opinion and ideas for change. The Davidson community is made up of people of all sorts of different opinions and ideas, and to chastise the author directly because his world view does not correspond with your own is insipidly trite. You do realize it is blatant discrimination to attack an individual on the grounds of his religious beliefs. He is entitled to an opinion just like everyone else. If you disagree with him than write an article to the Davidsonian, but the fact of the matter is, when you directly attack the author on the grounds that his belief goes against the current “Canon (which by the way has included a number of past beliefs such as racism and the suppression of women)” of progressive thinking than you are small minded indeed.

MCG

Mon Nov 9 2009 17:06

Michael, if everyone took the bible as the absolute rule then you probably wouldnt eat pig, eat shellfish, cut your hair, or a number of other pointless laws. The bible was written to explain God's love for all people and to teach us to have abiding faith in the Lord. Different people wrote different parts of the bible and it was inevitable that some of their personal views and views from that time would impact what they wrote. This summer I attended my gay cousin's wedding. I come from an very religous, Presbyterian family, yet not a single one of my relatives declined to attend the wedding or celebrate the marriage of two people in love. This fact may surprise you but, it didn't surprise me at all because I know the definition of being a Christian is loving God and your neighbors no matter what. No God that I love would hate gay people or any people and it saddens me that you fail to see that.

Your name

Mon Nov 9 2009 15:19

I can only assume the reference to casting the first stone is shallow nonsense. Is Michael being accused of casting stones because he encouraged his school to not lead its members into sin? Should we take Jesus' implied advice not to condemn that woman for adultery to mean that Jesus thought there was nothing wrong with adultery, i.e. that adultery isn't sin? What foolishness! If you reject all moral standards, all notions of right and wrong, just say so; obviously Jesus wasn't throwing all of morality and righteousness out the window completely.

Perhaps more to the point, why are all these comments so harshly accusatory of Michael for advocating his sincere understanding of right and wrong (a normative understanding in line with our cultural traditions going back essentially to the beginning of history)? Does modern "tolerance" mean that no one can legitimately voice his values? What is this terrible threat that Michael apparently poses? Why must those of you with different ideas of right and wrong attack Michael for hate speech?

Your name

Mon Nov 9 2009 15:04

Thank you Michael, I greatly respect your courage to speak the truth of God. May He uphold you, and He promises to - "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." "Everyone therefore who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven." And may He save the world in desperate need of Him.

John Syme '85

Mon Nov 9 2009 13:45

As a gay alumnus and college staffer who loves this place and everybody in it---everybody, even when they make me crazy---it sorrows me to see a mind and heart at Davidson close rather than open. But I also take joy in the living body and blood of everyone on this campus who is moving into, and even beyond, mere institutional tolerance and inclusivity toward a fuller spirit of brotherhood and sisterhood. That's the work we are all called to do. Let's do it. John Syme '85